prosecution more than i did 40 years and more. >> let me go into that because i want to ask you one of the things that snowden said is he wouldn't be able to defend himself and couldn't speak to motivations because it would be ruled by a judge as it was in your case in that trial reviewed as not sponsor as to why you took the pentagon papers and downloaded these documents. >> i'm sorry i can't see here. am i talking to andrea mitchell?

if he ended the case in a timely fashion and it was implied appropriately with me in prison. it was also the revelation of crimes by the white house including and going into my doctor's office using the cia against me numerous times, attempting to assault me or incapacity tate me. all of those are now regarded at legal under this administration with the first informally and then with the help of congress. so a president wouldn't be facing impeachment as nixon did

patriot, he would have done what daniel elsburg had done, stand trial and defend himself. >> if this man is a patriot, he should stay in the united states and make his case. patriots don't go to russia. they don't seek asylum in cuba and venezuela. they fight their cause here. there are many a patriot. you can go back to the pentagon papers with dan ellsberg and others who stood and went to the court system of america and made their case. edward snowden is a coward, he is a traitor and he has betrayed his country and if he wants to come home tomorrow to face the music, he can do so. >> well, today the famed pentagon papers whistleblower dan ellsberg is sounding off about kerry's comments.

patriot, as a coward and someone who betrayed his country is a despicable statement. >> tell me why you disagree with the argument he should have stayed, gone through the chain of command and faced the music, that he should -- >> there are several parts to that. at first chain of command, snowden had seen what had happened to every person who went through the chain of command in nsa. highest officials in nsa, technical people, ed loomis, tom drake, all gone to the inspector general and for that had their careers ruined, several resigned, all of them raided by the fbi and lost computers on suspicion that they had given the truth of what they were saying to the ig, inspector general and to congress about the nsa criminal listening in without a warrant on hundreds of millions of americans. they had told that but not to

so a president wouldn't be facing impeachment as nixon did if he did all of those things. i was not allowed even then, even before that ruling by the judge, to give -- to answer the question, why did i copy the p pentagon papers? i was not able to put out a defense at all in fact under those terms. it was ruled as irrelevant that motive is not relevancy and therefore i could say nothing about the fact that these secrets had been improperly withheld all of this time. and revealing them now caused no harm. i couldn't say any evidence to that effect and neither has anyone else prosecuted under these terms since. that's such as tom drake and others, that's what snowden would be facing. he would be facing a jail cell from the time he step off the plane here, the plane that john kerry offered him. he would be stepping into handcuffs and he would probably never get out unless the he is

snowden have diminished his stat tour even further and it has fallen in recent years in a number of ways. for him to characterize mr. snowden whom i regard as i american hero and very great patpat patriot, as a coward and someone who betrayed his country is a despicable statement. >> tell me why you disagree with

they had told that but not to the press as they should have i must say. they had gone to the congress and to the ig exactly as kerry has asked him to do and for that they were identified as trouble makers and potential whistle blowers were suspected of given the information to "the times", which i wish they had done and he think they wish they had done. they lost their jobs. snowden saw all of that. he's a fugitive not as secretary kerry says from justice. edward snowden is a fugitive from injustice. he has no chance of getting a fair just trial in this country any more than any of the other whistleblowers who have faced prosecution more than i did 40 years and more.

this country doesn't have an official secret to the kind britain has and most countries do have because we have a first amendment, which they do have, which procluds an act that criminalizes any and all release of documents that the government has marked secret or top secret. that such an act has been rejected many times when administrations have proposed it on the grounds it was unconstitutional. one time they passed it in october and november of 2000 and president clinton vetoed that on the grounds it was unconstitutional. that is the espionage act now that president obama has used seven times as if it were an official secrets act which it's very clear congress did not mean it to be and rejected that use. and the supreme court has never to this day ruled on it.

these terms since. that's such as tom drake and others, that's what snowden would be facing. he would be facing a jail cell from the time he step off the plane here, the plane that john kerry offered him. he would be stepping into handcuffs and he would probably never get out unless the he is pea onnage act is changed to allow a defense of public benefit, public interest in which these matters could be brought up. that's what congress should do and even before that the supreme court should at last rule on those aspects that they are unconstitutional, violations of the first amendment and freedom of press. >> we are going to have to leave it there. it is a fascinating parallel. thank you so much for bringing

♪ . >>> edward snowden is holding firm to his claim that he did blow the whistle about nsa abuses before the leaks. leaving a paper trail to prove it. his interview with brian williams. >> not just officially, in writing through e-mail, to these offices and these individuals, but to my supervisors, to my colleagues, in more than one office. >> under pressure the nsa after a year released one e-mail, the sole e-mail it found from snowden to nsa lawyers but snowden has fired back about that release telling the "washington post" today the picture painted by the nsa is incomplete. i'm joined now by jerry mabash