we understand the need for secrecy in ongoing investigations, but we need to know how the fisa court is interpreting the laws that congress has written. we need oversight over that from congress and we need redirected and declassified versions of those fisa court rulings for the public. >> what are your thoughts about russia granting temporary asylum to edward snowden, who really

life at this point, but what he did initially was a service to our country. we need to facilitate a way for whistleblowers to do that in a better fashion. i don't think our current whistleblower laws would have provided for him to do what he has done in a better fashion, so i would like to see some reform there as well. >> do you think russia was right

you think edward snowden did the right thing? well, i think he was overzealous and probably didn't -- he has clearly broken some laws for which down the government wants to prosecute him for, but inadvertently, he has revealed to us a whole area of secrecy and activity with telephone collections and other things that are now being

privacy, and read your statement from a former nsa employee and william binney who recently said the nsa is putting together dossiers on every u.s. citizen, listing who we have relations with, what our activities are. is there any truth to that and why do stories like this persists? it isn't true., we're not putting dossiers up on every u.s. citizen. in fact, we don't have a dossier on you. i have never seen one of your e-

towell, let me go back whether these people should keep their jobs or not. parse generalably keith alexander's words and somebody could argue he wasn't lying, but i would say he was definitely misleading the public on that issue. the director of national intelligence james clapper was here in march and unambiguously lied to congress. i believe he was under oath. it sets a bad precedent for the whole organization to let him keep his post. i think you should be relieved of his post for lying to congress. he could have chosen other words to say. he could've said, "i can't comment." >> could he be brought up on charges of perjury? >> if this were any american citizen or civilian, they would certainly be prosecuted for what he just did. at a minimum, he should lose his post. >> do you agree with that, commerce member conyers? >> yes, ma'am, i completely

congress. he could have chosen other words to say. he could've said, "i can't comment." >> could he be brought up on charges of perjury? >> if this were any american citizen or civilian, they would certainly be prosecuted for what he just did. at a minimum, he should lose his post. >> do you agree with that, commerce member conyers? >> yes, ma'am, i completely agree. i think we are now at the point

i have never seen one of your e- mails from an intelligence perspective or otherwise, actually. from my perspective, these are grossly out of the truth. they really are. to think we would be collecting on every u.s. person, one, that would be against the law for you and two, we get great oversight by all breaches of the government. i must have been bad when i was a kid. we get supervised by the defense department. o.ey see everything we do rea

statements like these seem to persist. you see them bounce around. it only hurts because people think, well, they must have something, there must be some element of truth. from my perspective, would you walk all the way through this, congress knows we're not doing it, all branches of our government see we are not doing it. all of them can audit it. from my perspective, not only should we stop leaks, but we .hould stop reporting this clearly, it's not right. >> your response to the director of the nsa general keith

telephone collections and other things that are now being revealed that would not have been revealed otherwise. add, some people say he should have gone to a congressman with this information. 20 or 30 probably congress members that already knew about this program. if he had went to them, i think we would not be having this discussion and he may already be in jail without the disclosure happening. >> i want to turn a president obama during an interview with charlie rose in june.

modify what he said, but it is clearly, untruthful from beginning to end. >> i would also like you to massie, commerce member

conductthese kinds of that we all know is improper and probably illegal. you sense something very different than we're getting in the media, that there is a

and a reporting to people. in march, we had the director of national intelligence come to congress, to the senate, to tell us this program did not exist. yet last week, we had the head of the nsa here lobbying to fund the program. what we need is more oversight. maintain theoth program doesn't exist or tell us lies in congress, then ask us for funding. specifically what we need is more visibility into the fisa court rulings. we understand the need for

many whoppers in one statement that it is hard to recount them all. first of all, this information isn't available to anybody. we only got it or a person that took it improperly and made it public. so the whole idea that they're well, i don't -- suppose he can announce a way to modify what he said, but it is

this pre-yet, it was so close. >> it was seven votes would have made the difference. to be honest, we did not know we were that close to victory. out a "dear colleague" letters urging that the amendment be supported and they were panicked by it. that even in the partisanship that goes on too

that even in the partisanship that goes on too much around here, that there are people will link to say enough is enough, the law isn't the patriot act isn't -- the patriot act isn't being followed. i didn't support the patriot act, but the patriot act would have gone down if we had known this was going to be part of its program. house,he floor of the you have the house majority leader, you have the speaker of the house, and the house minority leader all got up in

>> if we accept the premise it is ok for government to lie to us or for one branch of the government to lie to another branch of government in order to protect our public safety, then we have crossed the threshold. we cannot accept it is ok for government to lie to us to protect us. >> we can't turn into a surveillance state, trying to conductthese kinds of that we all know is improper and probably illegal. you sense something very

>> clearly, his disclosures have changed the course of human history, really. i think his initial disclosures were a service to our country because now we are having this conversation. and we wouldn't be having this conversation. i can't speak for mr. snowden's actions now, he is basically a person looking out for his own life at this point, but what he did initially was a service to our country. we need to facilitate a way for whistleblowers to do that in a

parse generalably keith alexander's words and somebody could argue he wasn't lying, but i would say he was definitely misleading the public on that issue. the director of national intelligence james clapper was here in march and unambiguously lied to congress. i believe he was under oath. it sets a bad precedent for the whole organization to let him keep his post. i think you should be relieved of his post for lying to congress. he could have chosen other words to say.