>> chris: i'm chris wallace. claims gas attack one year after president obama issued this warning. >> we have been very clear to the assad regime that a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilized. >> chris: the u.n. calls for an investigation while the obama administration hedges about its response. >> i'm not talking about red lines. i'm not having a debate or conversation about red lines. >> chris: we will ask two n senator bob corker and democratic congressman elliott angle what the u.s. should do in syria.

then, a student athlete from australia is killed in a senseless act of violence. >> is he breathing? is he con conscious? >> is he not conscious. >> is he still breathing? >> barely. >> barely. >> such an amazing person and i'm going to miss him forever. >> chris: prosecutors say these teens killed him for, quote, the fun of it. oklahoma governor mary fallon and jason hicks join to us discuss the case. plus, it's been 50 years since martin luther king inspired a generation with his dream for america. we ask our sunday panel about the gains of the past half century and where the civil rights movement stands today. all right now on "fox news sunday." and hello again from fox news in washington. there are reports and shocking video out of syria this week that seem to show the assad regime is engaged

in the largest use of chemical weapons since saddam hussein attacked his own people a quarter century ago. bob corker of tennessee is the top republican on the senator foreign relations committee and recently returned from the middle east. congressman elliott angle is the top democrat on the house foreign affairs committee. gentlemen, welcome back to "fox news sunday." >> thank you. >> the president's national security team met this weekend to discuss military options, including the possibility of a crews missile strike. we're told that u.s. navy ships are moving closer to the coast of syria. president obama says this is a big event of grave concern. but, the president then adds that we need to act deliberately. >> what we have seen is that folks will call for immediate action, jumping in to stuff, that does not turn out well. gets us mired in very difficult situations. >> chris: senator corker,

how much proof does president obama need and, if he decides that bashar assad has used chemical weapons on a large scale against his own people, what should he do? >> well, chris, the amount of social media that's coming out of syria indicates this is not something where opposition forces have contrived something. i think it's very evident that regime has acted in this way. i do think it's always good to be cautious but not -- since this has happened. i think we will respond in a surgical way and i hope the president as soon as we get back to washington will ask for authorization from congress to do something in a very surgical and proportional way. something that gets their attention, that causes them to understand that we are not going to put up with this kind of activity. at the same time, i hope it's the kind of action that doesn't move us away from the policy we have right now. where we want to see the syrian opposition group taking the lead on the ground.

so i hope we will move our training up and i know we are doing it co-verltly now. i think we need to move to more industrial strength training on the ground. we need to tilt the balance a little bit more as it relates to the opposition group on the ground. and i don't want our actions that are in response to this chemical warfare to alter that. but i do think we have to respond. i know we can use. >> chris: senator, let me pick up on two parts of that first of all, you say wait until congress comes back. you really think that the world can afford it wait a couple more weeks. when you talk about a surgical action, what are you saying? air strikes either crews missile strikes or jet fighter strikes but offshore? long distance? >> look, i think there is numbers of things that we can do, both from the ships that we have based right off the coast and there are other kinds of things we can do from countries nearby. i think you are aware that we have people on the ground in very nearby

locations. but obviously not boots on the ground. i do think we will take action. it may not wait. i mean, again, additional activities occur there, i think we should respond. my guess is that will not be the case. but, look, congress has had a pass on these kind of activities for a long time. i think it's time for us to take a step up and take responsibilities here too. my guess is they will. i have been talking with them recently this week i think they will come back and ask congress for legislation. elliott and i will work together to make that happen. i think you will see actions taking place there i do hope the united nations force or group will be able to get in and verify what's happening. even not, i think there are indications this is real. this was not contrived obviously the united states better world when the

united states takes leadership. >> chris: does it make sense for the u.s. military to take action should the effort be to topple assad or to punish him, to basically warn him no more use of chemical weapons and what's your sense of the time frame? how quickly do we have to act? >> i think we have to act rather quickly. i think the horrific killings of people murdering his own people. he has been doing it for a while now. but obviously the gas that was used to kill his own people. i think we have to respond. and i think we have to respond in conjunction with our nato allies. we have to respond much i think as was done in libya with the nato allies. and i think that we cannot afford to sit back and wait. we certainly cannot wait for the the the united nations. the russians are there to block everything with their veto. i look at this analogous to the 1999 situation in

kosovo whereby we -- there was endangered population and the nato launched air strikes to save that population. we couldn't do anything in the u.n. because, again, the russians were blocking any kind of resolution in the u.n. i think we can act. i think we should act. we should act for humanitarian purposes. we should act because it's in our national interest to act. assad essentially. >> how far would you go in surgical strikes? cruise missiles strikes or talking about enforcing no-fly zone? how far would you go. >> i certainly would crews missiles strikes. you can do that without boots on the grounds. without having americans in harms' way. can you destroy the runways assad's runways. you could destroy his munitions and destroy his fuel. there are lots and lots of things we could do. we could even destroy the syrian air force if we wanted to. i sent a letter to the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, general dempsey to ask what kind of option os can we do? i just think that we have

to move and we have to move quickly. i do agree with senator corker that i think congress needs to be involved. but, perhaps not initially. perhaps the president could start and then congress needs to resolve it and assent to it we cannot sit still. we have got to move and we have got move quickly. >> chris: it's a dangerous neighborhood, gentlemen. let's turn to egypt. former dictator mubarak was released this week from prison, sent to a military hospital with surprisingly little public protest. at the same time, the elected president, mohammed morsi remains in custody. and the white house continues to say that a coup is not a coup. take a look. >> we have concluded that it is not in the best interest of the united states to reach a determination on a coup. that that is a decision that will be set aside and that we will evaluate our assistance to the egyptians.

>> senator corker, is it time to choose a side in this struggle in the military or the muslim brotherhood and how you feel about the fact that he we are continuing to withhold, not cut off, but withhold at least half of our military aid this year to the egyptian military? should we go ahead and release that? >> well, lack, chris. there are all kinds of machinations to the aid and whether it's obligated, unobligated. look at the end of the day we have had the same kind relationship with the egyptian military for about 35 years. i do think it's time for us to recall wait it as i have said many times. on the other hand, we have 11,000 military officers in the egyptian military that have trained in the united states. they rely upon our country for parts. i think each year we ship about 35,000 parts to the military and certainly we want them to continue to function. so, look. we need to have a healthy relationship with the military there.

it looks over the last few days that they have been acting in a way that certainly has created security. but not stepping over the top. so i think we are beginning, hopefully, i know this is just maybe a few days of calmness but we're beginning to move in the right direction. i think all of us know that sometimes we try to move too quickly towards democracy and we think that elections make democracy occur. the governance sometimes doesn't follow. look, i'm beginning to see things take shape in a way that i think makes sense. no doubt there will be some suspensions but we're going to keep that relationship. it is in our national interest. we have first priority in the sue he see canal. it's important to americans. it's important for us to have security in that region and important to americans. >> chris: excuse me sir. let me bring in congressman angle. time to choose a side in egypt? >> if i have got to choose a side, between the muslim

brotherhood and the military, i would certainly not choose the muslim brotherhood. we need to nudge the military towards a democracy. we need to push them towards civilian rule. we have had 35 year relationship with them. it's time to use that relationship with them. i think we need to work with them. morsey, from the muslim brotherhood in my opinion was trying to destroy democracy in egypt. i think the united states needs to look at our interests. you know they do give us overflights over egypt. they put our ships in priority in the sue ease suez canal. i don't like when they kill people. i think we have to stand and nudge them but i think the military, relationship we have had with the military i think needs it continue and i think we need to work with them. >> chris: another story, the nsa story where it seems that almost every day

there is another revelation that comes out about the fact that the nsa, our government had access to more information, communications, involving americans than we had suspected or thought that they had violated their own rules in collecting thousands of domestic emails. senator corker, you have called for the head of the nsa, general keith alexander to brief congress when you get back in september. let me ask you a direct question, sir. as the top republican, on senate foreign relations, as you sit here today, do you feel that you actually know what the government is and isn't doing in surveilling americans? >> no. i mean, i think -- i don't think there is many people -- there are many people that work harder than i do. i'm not on the intelligence committee and obviously, they are privy to information that i am not. but, absolutely not. and that's why i wrote a letter this week to the president, asked that the head of this organization come in and brief folks

from top to bottom to explain every program that's underway, understand so we can understand its intent and to understand how appropriate oversight is taking place. look, i appreciate efforts to keep americans secure. at the same time, this is getting out -- this is in front of us. we are not in front of it. and every day their stories that you just mentioned that are leaked out, the american people want to know that those of us who are elected, elliott and i understand fully what's happening here. i don't think we do. i would imagine there are even members of the intelligence committee themselves that don't fully understand the exam mutt of things that are taking place. it's our responsibility to know those things. to ensure their imbalance. i hope as soon as we get back, there will be a full briefing from top to bottom so that can happen. >> chris: let me bring in and we have a minute left congressman angle some time back you voted against reauthorization of the

patriot ability. how far would you go in limiting government surveillance of americans? >> well, you know, we had an amendment to the appropriations bill cutting off the funding for the nsa surveillance. i voted against that amendment because i don't think you can just cut off a program. you need to replace it with something. but i am very troubled by the things that are coming out day after day. showing that we have not really been told the truth. do i think that congress needs to revisit this whole issue and come up with a plan. what i have seen so far is really unsatisfactory. we were told one thing congress was told one thing and as senator corker said, we don't feel that we are being told everything. and that's not really the way things should work. so i'm troubled by it i think we need to look at it and i think we need to revamp the program. >> chris: congressman angle and senator corker, thank you both so much for coming in today. we will stay on top of all these stories, gentlemen. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> up next a thrill-killing

in oklahoma. >> i'm appalled at the behavior of these three children. >> chris: shocked and outrage on two continents after prosecutors say a group of teens murdered an australian college student because they were bored. we'll speak with the governor of oklahoma and the d.a. handling the case. hey kevin...still eating chalk for heartburn? yeah... try new alka seltzer fruit chews. they work fast on heartburn and taste awesome. these are good. told ya! i'm feeling better already. [ male announcer ] new alka seltzer fruits chews. enjoy the relief! 20 years with the company. thousands of presentations. and one hard earned partnership. it took a lot of work to get this far. so now i'm supposed to take a back seat when it comes to my investments?

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>> chris: we have become all too used to violence in this country, but a brutal murder in oklahoma has shocked the nation. 22-year-old christopher lane, australian college student in the u.s. on a baseball scholarship, was

shot and killed while out for a jog. police say three teens picked him at random, shothim n drove off because they say they were bored. we'll talk with oklahoma governor mary fallin in a few minutes but first we want to get the latest on the case from jason hicks. mr. hicks, we are learning more, especially about one of the suspects 15-year-old james edwards. he put videos on the web in which we see him playing with a gun. flashing gang signs he tweeted a number of racist messages including this one, 90% of white people are senatey, hash tag hate them. and yet you say you don't intend to treat them as a race-related crime, sir, why not? >> good morning, chris. the reason that i'm not going to be treating this as a hate crime as far as the evidence goes, that is directly linked to the murder of christopher lane, there is nothing inside the files and the audio and the

reports that we have been given that would lead to us believe that christopher lane was killed simply because of his nationality or or because of his race. state of oklahoma the hate crime statute is a misdemeanor. i believe it's more important to focus on the death of christopher lane than it is to focus on the hate and whatnot that edwards has spewed, with respect to those tweets i don't have any evidence in my possession at this time that would allow me to prove that that account is actually owned by edwards or that edwards was the one who actually tweeted those let me ask you about another aspect of this because we have heard stories about these three suspects' cap columbus indifference. is it true that 15-year-old james edwards was dancing at the police station while he was being booked for this murder? >> yes, that is true. i described that to the

court on tuesday when i was asking the court to hold him without bail here in stephens county jail. the description would have been he was dancing and doing twirls cutting up during the booking process. he thought the whole thing was a joke. >> chris: which brings me to the big question i don't know if you can answer it any better than we can you say the three suspects were running around the apartment complex where they live playing violent video games and pretty much raising themselves. we know that james edwards' mother is in jail. of course, that's no excuse. but is that part of the explanation? how have you wrapped your head around the idea that these three young men were so utterly indifferent to life and death? >> i don't know that i will ever be able to wrap my mind completely around the why or how three individuals could have such a callus attitude and drive down the road and pull the

trigger and take the life of somebody who is out for a jog. i don't know that i will ever be able to give an explanation as to why there. but, you know, some of the information that we have indicates that they ran loose at an apartment complex here in duncan and really in no parental supervision and spent a lot of time playing video games and whatnot while they were inside their homes as far as completely being able to understand the why i will not be able to do that because it's such a senseless act of violence. >> chris: we have got less than two minutes left. i want to go through a couple of questions about where we go from here. sir. what's the time line from when these three, you called them thugs, which is certainly wrong, when these three will face trial? my description of them is thugs they are not children. decided to take the life of another human being. as far as time line goes what i anticipate the first

part of october there will be preliminary hearing conferences for edwards and luna and we will actually have a preliminary hearing scheduled for jones the first part of october as well. i anticipate getting through the preliminary hearings and then getting them to trial some time within 12 to 18 months. >> how strong a case do you think you have mr. hicks? i think we have a very strong case otherwise we wouldn't be where we are today. >> chris: if convicted, the two that are charged with first degree felony murder, edwards and luna, what's the maximum penalty they could face? >> life without parole. in oklahoma, a murder one charge carries life, life without parole or the death penalty. but because of their age, prohibited by the united states supreme court from seeking the death penalty so the maximum poor those two would be life without parole. >> chris: mr. hicks, we have to leave it there. thanks so much for coming and talking with us today. thank you, sir. >> vetiond. thank you, chris. >> chris: i spoke earlier with the governor of

oklahoma mary fallin. governor, we associate these kind of cold blooded murders with inner cities not small town oklahoma how much has this case shaken your state. >> it's absolutely shaken our state down to the core. it's unimaginable and unbelievable that something this tragic could happen in the state of oklahoma. especially in one of our great communities in our state, duncan, oklahoma. we are all heart-broken. we are shocked, and just can't believe that something as horrible could happen to someone that was a very active member of the community, active member of the student campus. beloved my friends and. our hearts and prayers are with chris lane's family and especially the community of not only duncan, oklahoma but ada oklahoma, the central university where chris was a student. >> chris: governor, the former deputy prime

minister of australia has advised tourists it that they should avoid the united states make a statement about gun control and some gun control advocates are making the same point. what do you think of attempts to link this murder to the easy availability of guns in your state? >> well, i don't think this issue is about gun control it's an issue about murder. it's an issue about three young men who did something very terrible to it a very innocent bystander who was jogging through his community. it's very unfortunate what has happened. i certainly understand that australia is very upset people in united states are very upset because it's such a shock that anyone would do what they have

done to chris lane. unfortunate australia feels that way. united states has been a great friend to australia, i certainly understand that there is some raw feelings up there certainly raw emotions. and i think that's something that would be anticipated people are different ideals and concerns themselves. >> chris: some people on the right note civil rights leaders and president obama spoke out quite quickly about the trayvon martin case and yet have remained silent in the case of christopher lane. on wednesday, 48 hours after this became international news, the white house spokesman was asked about the case. take a look. >> do you have any reaction to the christopher lane case? >> i'm not familiar with it, actually. >> chris: governor, what do you make of the silence of people like al sharpton and quite frankly the silence of the president? >> well, you know, i don't know what to think about

that. it would be nice and i will say something to the family. it would be nice if our nation would express our condolences how sorry we are. this is a very unusual circumstance that you don't anticipate that someone would create such a brutal crime on such a beautiful person. i will tell you that i have been to the campus of east central university last night. i was able to shake hands with some of his colleagues on the campus. so students. so baseball players. i expressed my condolence to the east central campus itself the students, the community. we are going to reach out to the family. i have the family's phone number and when the the time differences allow i'm going to personally call the family in australia and i hope can i get ahold of them and visit with them just to tell them how very, very sorry and sad the people of oklahoma are for their loss.

>> chris: excuse me, do you think the president should speak out oon this as well particularly given his involvement in the trayvon martin case? >> i think it would be a nice gesture for him to do that and especially since the country of australia has expressed their sentiments as to the murder itself. you know, i think it would be a nice gesture for them to be able to do that and i certainly know that's what i'm going to do. >> chris: briefly, we have less than a minute left. i'm going to ask you a big question which i'm sure have you thought about. what on earth do you think would lead three teenagers to gun down a complete stranger because they say they were bored and had nothing to do? >> >> well, it's hard to get into the minds of those three teenagers it's unbelievable and unfathomable that he they would have a thought in their mind to gun down somebody who is so innocent just taking a jog through the community. you know, in america we do have different families that are broken. we do have poverty rates. we have those that are uneducated.

we have substance abuse issues. we he certain will he have a lot of video games and a lot of movies that that is depict violence. we should try to make things better for our communities and our families and make things better in society. >> chris: governor, going to have to leave it there obviously. a big discussion and we have to continue it it thank you so much, governor, for talking with us. >> you're welcome. thank you very much. >> chris: up next, 50 years after the march on washington, how far have we come? our sunday panel looks at martin luther king's message and the state of civil rights in america. next. [ phil ] when you have joint pain and stiffness...

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50 years ago this week martin luther king marched and gave this message. >> i have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. i have a dream today. >> chris: so, where does the civil rights movement stand today? time to bring in our sunday

group. former republican senator scott brown. kirsten powers of the daily beast web site. radio talk show host david webb and fox news political analyst juan williams. there are plenty of numbers to support either side of this argue: let's put some of them up. on the one hand in 1970, there were 1469 black elected officials in this country. now there are more than 10500. 1964, 26% of blacks, 25 or older had completed four years of high school. now that's 85%. on the other hand, the unemployment rate is now 6.6% for whites. 12.6% for blacks. and black men are six times as likely as whites, six times as likely to spend time in prison. juan, as somebody who has written extensively over this -- about the civil rights movement for years. how far have we come? what's left to do? >> i don't think there is

any question we have come a long way. my dad couldn't be sitting on a major network talking about the news 50 years ago or you think back 100 years before that emancipation proclamation you understand how far we have come as a nation. but on some very basic levels, there has also been just outstanding improvement. again here in washington, you think of president obama 50 years ago that was beyond -- nobody would have said oh yeah, the president could have been a black man, not possible. you think of secretary condoleezza rice as a face of america for the world. colin powell, you think of senator scott, you from south carolina a black senator or think of goodness gracious, thurgood marshall on the court. clarence thomas that we have someone on the supreme court. again, tremendous change. i think if you look at the realities of today, you have got to talk about things like family breakdown. you have got to talk about 70% of black children were born out of wedlock i think

dr. king would cry. tremendous dropout. failure of you are began schools, chris. i think that's the civil rights challenge of this generation. the culture, i was just listening to your interview with governor fallin you think about the culture for a second. jay-z and latest hit album he is using the "n" word repeatedly. you think what is going on here? snoop dogg? it's pornographic and invites people to think authentic blackness is you have got to be hip hop and hard, education not valued. to me, this is the tragedy of our day. >> chris: david, your take, where are we 50 years after i have a dream? >> not only 50 years after i have a dream,chris where we are 237 years after the founding of this country. we reversed course on what was a worldwide tragedy. racism exists. we can't pretend it doesn't exist but we can't pretend that it exists everywhere. so all the things juan talks about are true. we have advanced 2013. what we haven't done is left some of the old

arguments aside. we need to tackle the new challenges its moral decay in this country because when it happens in the black community it's not just in the black community it's the american community. what we see happening whether it's e.p.a. sing gel parent birth rate. failure to graduate. functional ill literacy in detroit. this is a major urban environment and major failure. this is something that shows the world that america has made great strides and americans that made great strides but as a matter of fact we have a need to move into 2013 and take these issues on in our current environment and education it is the civil rights issue today. pause what we do as a nation is we degrade and we lose our culture, our workforce. we lose our ability and america is a land of opportunity. if you are not educated. you can't take advantage of that opportunity.

>> chris: you know, 50 years after the march on washington. one of the questions is how long -- well, how much longer the government should give special treatment to minorities. back in 2003, then justice sandra day o'connor was the swing vote in uphogd racial preferences, continued racial preferences inege admis. but she said that that should end she said back then within 25 years. kirsten, justice o'connor has now backed off that 25 year deadline. at some point does affirmative action, does special treatment need to end? >> yeah. and i think president obama has even addressed that before perhaps we should be looking more at economic inequality. we have made a lot of progress. obviously we have an african-american president. we have a lot of people in high positions. but pew asked americans how much progress they thought we had made only 45% thought we had made real progress toward racial equality. african-americans said 32%. so i think that americans seem to be in agreement

that we have a long way to go. the march on washington was also about jobs. it was a march for jobs and freedom. and pew also found for the past six decades african-american unemployment has been double that of white people. so it's not something that is just happening in this economy. this is something that's been going on really since the beginning of time. >> chris: i guess the question i'm trying to get at senator brown is, at what point have we gone as far as the country, as the government needs to go in putting a thumb on the scale if you will. it is 50 years after martin luther king's speech. obviously there were hundreds of years of discrimination. but at what point do we in effect say, you are on your own? obviously there will be government programs to help poor people or education in the inner city but not this kind of special preference affirmative action? think think we are getting close. we have made huge strides. certain pockets where there

is inequality there are disadvantages that need to be addressed. but do we do that through government intervention or job creation. education our kids or youth. getting culture family. black-on-black violence. 90 plus percent. we have to step back from glorifying a movement, the hip hop movement and other types of movements that glorify violence. so there are certain pockets, i think, and i think we are getting very close to just letting americans, black, white, all races, colors, creeds, move forth with their own qualifications and stand on their own merits. >> chris: do you agree with that juan? >> i think the largest argument of this day at this time is one that says is it personal responsibility that would be the conservative take. or is it the case that there is systemic racism in this society that continues as a legacy of slavery and legal discrimination in our country? and, you know, i will just tell you how i feel about it i think you have got to go at this point with

taking personal responsibility for your family, your community, your neighborhood because just like sandra sandra day o'connor. i don't believe that white america, in fact, a much more diverse america is going to allow affirmative action preference to exist. it doesn't exist in any great way in the fortune 500 now. but people have this perception and that's why the court recently ruled in the way that it did in terms of higher education in michigan and texas. i don't think that's going to exist. i think that you need civil rights leaders to speak out against crime in the black community. to speak out against these hip hop leaders senator brown was talking about. to say to kids here is how you can make it in this country and stop thinking just because you are black there is reason or excuse for not achieving. >> chris: all right. we have to take a break here. but, when we come back, the ongoing split inside the g.o.p. over how to stop obama care. but, first, get fox news' daily politics newsletter straight in your inbox. fox news first gives you the scoop first thing in the morning. sign up now at foxnews.com

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>> i think there is far too much 1/2vel gaysinging looking the at polls. stand up do the right things and lead and the politic also take care of itself. >> if you don't want to be a problem-solver, then you are putting yourself ahead of the movement. you are putting your political ambition in front of your patriotic duty. >> chris: texas senator ted crews and priebus disagreeing about how far is too far in opposing president obama's policies and we're back now with the panel. there was some commentary this week that the g.o.p.

is in worse shape with the voters now than they were last november. the argument is for all the talk about learning methods g.o.p. has further alienated gays and hispanics. stuck in argument try to shut down the government to defund obama care, senator brown do you agree with that? >> i believe that washington as a whole is dysfunctional both problems have very serious problems. as a republican party, there needs to be room for a ted cruise, people like me, rand paul, others. we need to have the ability to have and share those great ideas and then find a consensus and move our country forward. what i have found as i travel around the country people are tired and fed up with the decisiveness political interest. whether they shut down the government i think that's exactly what harry reid and chuck schumer wants and that's what the democrats want in the house that will just show here we go again the republicans holding

things up. you are not going to get your paycheck and they will throw it on us. listen, obama care is not good. i voted to get rid of it three or four times. we have it in massachusetts. unions are trying to get out of it. you have everybody trying to get waivers, it's crushing job creation, job growth and we need to find a way to do it better. >> chris: house republican speaker john boehner held a conference call with fellow house republicans this week. he wants to put off the fight over funding obama care by offering a short-term spending bill to fund the government for a couple of months and kirsten, the idea seems to be instead of threatening to shut down the government unless you defund obama care in september, get all these issues together and have one big fight over that and the debt limit in november and clearly he wants to avoid this any possibility of shutting down the government exactly because as senator brown says he thinks it's going to end up hurting republicans. do you think that's a smart political idea? >> yeah. i do think -- look, i think

the old guard is definitely right on this. this is very much the new guard vs. the old guard which i think makes it very interesting when you have rubio, rand paul, ted cruise on one side and mccain and coburn, boehner on the other side what they are really disagreeing about is tactics. everyone believes you should defund obama care. the question is how. if they don't shut down the government it's probably not going to get defunded. and while i disagree with them substantively on what they're trying to do. i do think there is something refreshing in the fact that they actually stand up for what they believe not just on this issue but i think on a the lo of issues and that is something that frankly i can't hardly think of anyone in the democratic party to believes like any of these three men who have really challenged the party on at love issues. >> chris: david, to pick up on this question the old guard vs. the new guard, the new guard more concern republicans the tea party

faction they say we don't want to put off this fight until november or not have it all. they want to defund obama care, they are willing to shut down the government and they want to have it now. is that -- you can argue whether obviously it's their convictions is that going to end up hurting the republican party or helping it? >> no one knows. everyone is trying to determine the outcome of this, chris. when you look at the old guard vs. the new guard. one of the problems is we have had an old guard in washington that has become the political class. the political class has been there for 30 years on both sides of the aisle plus. and they have no new voices. no new input. they are just simply functioning within a system that is big and frankly slow to move. washington, d.c. does not work well with comprehensive anything. look at obama care, comprehensive bills, look at putting these fights together into one comprehensive fight. why are we not tackling solutions, finding solutions incrementally on issues. whether it's border security, energy policy, immigration, continuing

resolutions, instead, what we have is a political class and really in america it's americans vs. the political class. because we have basically a group of all the guards who decide our future based on the old guard and the new guard or the new voices need to be heard. the reagan principle. we need a big tent. we need to bring everyone in. this is an american problem. not a republican or democrat problem. >> chris: if you are saying, david, that we don't do well with comprehensive reforms, does that also mean we shouldn't have a comprehensive roll back that instead of saying defund obama care and shut down the government maybe go after obama care in bits and pieces? >> obama care you use everything you can in washington to get rid of it, incrementally, comprehensively, you use every trick, every tool because this thick is -- wreck for train when he the american people. as senator brown talked about unions, waivers, u.p.s., all these decisions are being made on obama care and they are hurting

our economy and they will continue to hurt our economy and this thing is a multitrillion-dollar nightmare down the road. >> chris: i want to pick up on that because there were more big bumps in the road for obama care this week. let's put some of them up. u.p.s. and the united university of virginia say ups andth united university of virginia will no longer cover working spouses because of the cost of health insurance under a obama care. some companies say they have to raise premiums to cover obama care. delta airlines said it could cost them $100 million a year, the increased costs from obama care, which raises the question, juan, forget the politics and republican party, could just the fact of the implementation of o how when the rubber hits the road could obama care be a big a political burden for democrats and in that sense maybe ap republicans should sit back and let it happen?re i >> i think the big problem here is the dysfunction we're talkin about, but it is not with obama care. every major social program

rolled out in american history, social security, medicare, so he popular today, r all had bumps y the roll when rolled out, ha the roll when rolled out, ha you can anticipate that with ng obama care. aak but i think republicans are making a huge mistake if they to think this is going to work to their benefit.th "the wall street journal" had a poll two weeks ago, most americans say look, this is going to happen. there's no way you're going to turn this around at this point. there's a democratic majority in the senate, president obama, a democrat in the white house, they're not going to allow you to defund, do away with obama care. that's ridiculous.w >> this thing isn't a bump in di the road, it is a giant sinkhole in the american economy. look at the reality how obama care wasno passed. this thing was a party line vote, it was not based on fixing the system. and there's something americans need to realize, chris.ican while it is only 2,000 something pages, ridiculous in nature, the regulations are somewhere near 19,000 pages.ad there's no technology to match. this thing is a train wreck.

>> this is no train wreck. if republicans were serious, whe don't they make it better? 40 votes to try to veto it. not one vote for alternative to say here is how you make it work. name one program one time they voted on -- >> senator, with all due respect, when i got there as th 41st senator, we tried to fix i and they would not bring up, all the amendments they brought up,n they would not move it forward. the democrats, lock stock a and barrel, they knew if we passed one amendment, the whole bill would fail. it is a mess, a train wreck. democrats and republicansr are ' saying it is a train wreck. individual states should have the ability to determine the kind of health care they want. the federal government should making that determination for the states. it is crushing jobs. 18 new taxes. they're about to click in. we are in deep trouble. we should focus on debt, deficit, spending, jobs. >> i have to ask you, you were seen at the iowa state fair.

>> they're great, chris, go right to your belly. >> i don't need anything that goes right to my belly. are you running for president in 2016 in. >> i am focusing on focusing asn the panel said. there needs to be room for everybody to be effective.fo >> real quickly. is that enough. >> travel the country, see what happens. >> thank you, panel.>> see you next week. that's not a no. remember, our discussion continues on panel plus. find it on our website, foxnewssunday.com. follow us on in twitter @foxnewssunday. up next, the new mascot of the u.s. marine corps.ox and coming up, the new mascot of the u.s. marine corps. [ male announcer ] this is claira.

to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for her, she's agreed to give it up. that's today?

[ male announcer ] we'll be with her all day to see how it goes. [ claira ] after the deliveries, i was okay. now the ciabatta is done and the pain is starting again. more pills? seriously? seriously. [ groans ] all these stops to take more pills can be a pain. can i get my aleve back? ♪ for my pain, i want my aleve. [ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap.

i can tell how good our power player is by how many members of the staff want to go to the interview. well, everyone wanted to go back in march when we first ran this story. so once again, enjoy our power player of the week. ♪ meet sergeant chessy the 13th. this english bulldog is the mascot. >> the mascot is involved in a number of official functions in washington, d.c. >> we are proud to introduce the official mascot of washington,

d.c. sergeant chesty the 13th. >> engaging with leadership and government officials. when we bring guests for official functions, he is one of the most popular figures. >> jack nor ton is the public affairs summer at the marine barracks that makes him his spokesman. >> sometimes they're tough to get along with, sometimes they're kind of grouchy. at the end of the day, they're always there for you and accomplish the missions. >> there's about to be a changing of the guard. chesty will retire this summer and recruit chesty now in boot camp is expected to become a private in april, training to take his place. >> he is getting history classes, through the home of the come dont. doctrined to all of the discipline of the recruits. >> he has his own uniform, complete with sergeant chevrons, service medals. for recruit chesty, he has a ways to go to match up to the

sergeant. >> looking at him to mentor the young recruit and set a positive example for him. >> he has big paws to fill. >> the mascot tradition goes to world war i when the germans called the marines devil dogs. in the early '20s, private jigs enlisted. then they changed the name to chesty. and then to chesty fuller, the most decorated marine ever. and they take all of this seriously. >> we have had busted back in rank before. >> how did the dogs take it. >> marines typically don't take it well when demoted. you know, it is a message. we can't have a mascot running around, biting, barking, doing things they're not supposed to do. >> but that's exactly what sergeant chesty did last summer when he went after defense secretary panetta's dog at the friday evening parade. >> he barked and lashed out at

bravo, it was a tense moment. >> challenging civilian control of the military. >> this was in front of the secretary of defense and commandant of the marine corps. >> then there was speculation sergeant chesty was forced out. >> he was promoted to sergeant after that. there's no truth to the rumor it is a forced retirement. >> whatever reason this pup should be the new mascot by late august, with as many as five public events a week. >> chesty is a great way to represent the more than 200,000 marine sailors. he has an important job. we're happy to have him. >> sergeant chesty is in his final week as the marine mascot, private first class chesty being promoted to lance corporal, will take over his official duties wednesday. that is one good-looking marine. that's it for today. have a great week. see you next fox news sunday. a great weeks.

and we'll see you next weeks on "fox news sunday." we are live at fox report. american war ships sitting not far from syria. here is what we know. there's little doubt syria is using chemical weapons on its own people, from a senior obama administration official. is it time to fire away? >> i certainly would do cruise missile strikes.